TF2 Heavy Upgrade ideas
I read this post on the TF2 blog and just had to take up the challenge; but it seemed that the only way to “respond” to it would be through the magic of the blogosphere. This seemed like the perfect excuse to start the game design blog I’d been thinking about doing for a while, so here’s my first post!
So here’s my thoughts on how to change the Heavy class in TF2 to make him more viable when he has no medic to pair with.
My qualifications
Although I think that ideas should stand on their own merit, it might be relevant for me to talk about my experience.
I’m a professional games programmer with 5 years experience in the industry, and an amateur game designer (with interest in being one professionally, except that I’m loathe to sacrifice my programmer salary
I’ve played multiplayer FPSes since 2000, including nearly all of Valve’s games and particularly a great deal of CS:S and BF2; and I’m currently an avid TF2 player. I was the Team Captain of the Midway Austin TF2 team, in a TF2 tournament against many other game development studios, and led our team in clawing our way to the middle. I’m not the best player, but I know and love this game.
The Vacuum Gun: New Mechanics
I may have subconsciously stolen this idea from reading this interesting article of TF2 unlockable ideas, which includes a Heavy gun that sucks up fallen weapons for ammo. But I propose a weapon which sucks up fallen weapons, and converts them into additional Health for the Heavy.
In more detail: this would be an alternate Primary Weapon similar to the current Minigun; but whenever you were spinning and firing the weapon, it would automatically cause any dropped weapons seen within the Heavy’s crosshair to fly toward him and “into” his gun; upon absorbing the dropped weapon, the Heavy receives a certain amount of health (say, 1/2 times the amount of Metal that the weapon would be worth). It would have no effect on ammo crates or medpaks.
This on its own would violate the constraint that the feature not have a cumulative effect with the medic’s healing, which it currently does: a Heavy with a Medic healing him and this gun is clearly much better off than a Heavy with only a Medic healing him.
So the mechanic that balances this is that when this gun is equipped, the Heavy cannot be buffed. Normally a Medic’s healing gun can buff any teammate’s health to 150%; in the Heavy’s case this gives a big advantage, as they go from 300 to 450 HP when fully buffed. This is a big reason that the Medic/Heavy combination is so powerful, and the reason that Heavies with Medics are so difficult to take down.
Taking the buff away makes things fairly even. With the Vacuum Gun, the Heavy is more independent when Medics don’t help me; but the Medics that do help me have less of an impact. If the player feels confident that they’ll have a Medic to help them, they may want to stick with the standard Minigun and get the advantage of being buffed up to 450 HP.
(From there of course this idea will need to be tweaked: if playtests shows one weapon to be unbalanced relative to the other, things can be further balanced by tweaking the Vacuum Gun’s relative amount of ammo, and maybe even having it give the Heavy more - or less - HP, like the Pyro’s Backburner. The Vacuum Gun’s disadvantage could be made more pronounced by causing it to cap out the Medic’s healing at 75% of standard health; or less pronounced by allow it to buff, but only to a smaller degree.)
The Vacuum Gun could also have one more mechanic: it could suck in the Demoman’s grenades (both pipebombs and stickies). When it did so, the Heavy would take a certain amount of damage - perhaps 1/2 of the damage that the individual grenade would have done with a direct hit. (It could only suck up grenades that the Heavy had a clear line-of-sight to, of course.)
Bearing in mind that the Vacuum effect is “always on” when the Heavy is firing the Vacuum Gun (not when he is only spinning), we can see some interesting dynamics yielded by this mechanic:
- Demomen could counter the Vacuum Gun: if they see an enemy Heavy using the Vacuum Gun, they would begin spamming grenades along his line of fire, and the Heavy would be likely to accidentally suck them up. (Though the grenades may do less damage than usual, they have a high chance of hitting as they’re easily vacuumed up on accident.)
- When the counter described above is used, the Heavy has to begin making an interesting decision as to whether to keep firing/vacuuming. He can absorb a few grenades without dying, but not many - so he needs to gauge the chances of accidentally vacuuming grenades vs. the need to fire. In either case, the defending Demomen have improved the situation for their team - but a clever Heavy (especially one backed up with a Medic to heal the grenade damage) can still remain effective.
- This also creates a new way to clear sticky-mine fields: the Heavy can choose to suck them up into his own gun to clear the way for his friends, but the stickies will damage or even kill him. With a Medic there to heal him, this could be a good opportunity for teamwork tradeoffs; in addition, it will encourage Demomen to be more clever with their sticky placement, putting them in places where Heavies cannot see them (and therefore won’t know to - or simply won’t be able to - vacuum them).
- The Heavy can suck up Demoman pipebombs as well: so if a Heavy and a few other players are moving down a narrow hallway and suddenly a couple of pipes drop in among them, the Heavy may fire up his gun and suck them in - though again he takes less damage than they would have inflicted, he takes it all upon himself, and will be injured or even killed for his teammates’ sake.
My only concern here is whether the Heavy could get his weapon firing quickly enough to vacuum up a pipe before it detonated - perhaps instead of only vacuuming when firing, the Vacuum could begin sucking as soon as the left mouse button was depressed, while the bullets still would take a second of spinning before they began firing. (This would allow the Heavy to suck without firing at some times; but it doesn’t seem like this would ever be a bad thing.)
Could the grenades detonate in midair while being vacuumed? Could they detonate by hitting something (a teammate) on their way flying toward the Heavy’s gun? To avoid potential griefing, and generally make things simpler, some rules would need to be in place for grenade behavior once they began being sucked:
- They should never detonate in midair while vacuumed - even if the pipe’s timer runs down, or the demoman detonates the sticky - instead they should “wait” until they’re sucked up, then detonate inside the gun.
- They should go straight into the Heavy’s gun without intersecting anything on the way. (If the Heavy does not have line-of-sight to the grenade, then the sucking never even begins.)
- The Heavy cannot stop vacuuming in the middle of a grenade’s flight through the air (or rather, if they do stop vacuuming, the grenade continues flying anyway - the effect cannot be canceled).
- If the Heavy dies while a grenade is in midair, the grenade ceases to exist. (Alternatively it could explode in midair, but again this could create a griefing opportunity.)
There are two possible negative effects that grenade-sucking could have on gameplay:
- It could be eliminate the tactic of sticky-ing Sentries. This is one of the most effective strategies for Sentry take-down, which is a pivotal element of the game on many maps. If a Heavy can suck away stickies as soon as they’re placed on a Sentry, this vital strategy would be ineffective.
- The logical effect of an ubered Heavy vacuuming a sticky would be for the sticky to get vacuumed, but for it to deal no damage to the invincible Heavy. This could weaken one of the few effective counters to an ubercharge: “popping” them apart with sticky mines.
A solution to both of these would be for stickies to not get sucked immediately, but require the Heavy to hold his crosshair on them while sucking for two seconds or so before they finally detach and fly to him. This would give the demoman time to detonate stickies before they’re sucked up, and still attack sentries effectively; and in a 10-second ubercharge, those two seconds spent neutralizing stickies would be a considerable loss of precious time.
How it will Affect the Game: Dynamics
At every point in the creative process I try to stop - repeatedly - and ask “What are we trying to accomplish?” This seemingly-obvious question can often cut a great deal of unnecessary complexity. Valve seems to have the same idea: let’s go over their checklist and see if my idea accomplishes their Goals without violating their Constraints.
Goal: Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with.
A Medic with the Vacuum Gun equipped would have the ability to do for himself what the Medic should be doing for him: heal himself even as he lays down fire. The more enemies he kills, the more dropped weapons he can suck up to heal himself.
It shouldn’t have a cumulative effect when being healed by a Medic as well. Heavy/Medic pairs do pretty well as it is.
The “no buffing” limitation accomplishes this pretty effectively. A “Medic + Heavy w/ Vacuum” pair is not necessarily more effective than a regular Medic/Heavy pair, and may in fact be less effective.
(Side note: if two such teams were to fight head-to-head, the latter pair would usually win [since the Heavy in the latter pair is likely to be buffed to higher health, and they are unlikely to find dropped weapons to be vacuumed during this encounter]. This seems appropriate, as the Heavy who chose the regular gun - i.e. chose to rely more on his Medic - should be rewarded more by the presence of a Medic in such an encounter.)
It shouldn’t significantly change the Heavy’s role, relative to other classes. In particular, it shouldn’t significantly encroach on another class’s role.
The fact that the Heavy can heal himself encroaches somewhat on the Medic’s role; but it seems like there’s no way to accomplish the Goal without doing this to some extent, and this seems to be one of the, uh, less-encroachful ways to do it!
The grenade-sucking gives the Heavy a new role of “grenade-jumper-onner”. This meshes well with his existing role as “tank” or “damage sponge”; no class is more well-suited for this role than the Heavy. However, the fact that he may also become “sticky-cleaner” could be seen as encroaching on the Pyro’s role of cleaning stickies with his air blast.
It should be understandable for both the user and the player it’s being used on.
A huge cartoony vacuum cleaner the size of a jet engine that sucks in dropped weapons should be fairly understandable! Health “+” signs and muffled explosion effects emerging from the gun should clearly depict the effects of the Heavy sucking in weapons and grenades, respectively.
How much work is it? How many new models, sounds, effects, etc?
This seems no more difficult to implement than the previous unlockables probably were. The most difficult part would probably be programming: the line-of-sight checks to the dropped weapons and grenades; the delay while sucking stickies; and changing the grenade behavior while they’re being vacuumed (but even there I’ve simplified most of the edge cases).
Does it deepen the Heavy’s skill curve? Is it easy to learn? Hard to master?
It’s easy to learn that you can suck up weapons and that they heal you, and that you suck up grenades and they hurt you. The dynamics and strategies that emerges from those mechanics will be fairly deep and hard to master, but still intuitive natural extensions of those mechanics.
Is it an interesting tool to choose relative to the base Heavy weapon it’s replacing? What scenarios can you envision in which each is useful? What arguments can you raise for why each is better than the other?
This has mostly been answered - I think I’ve laid out a few example scenarios above. The health buff loss, and the chance of accidentally sucking up grenades, clearly makes it so that it’s not a “pure improvement” over the Minigun.
How often does the Heavy need to think about it? Is it something he uses once every 5 minutes, or is it something he needs to be constantly thinking about? A greater impact on player decision making is generally a good thing.
Whenever he is in a “laying down fire” scenario with this weapon, the Heavy will need to be keeping an eye out for dropped weapons that he can suck up, and watch out for grenades that he could accidentally suck up. His decision on when to fire will be made more complex as it becomes a “risk-vs.-reward” scenario: when there’s a high likelihood of absorbing grenades, firing becomes risky and he will need to hold off firing more.
Whether or not to intentionally suck up a grenade is an interesting decision that the Heavy will have to make constantly but which will often have a different answer, depending on many factors such as the Heavy’s health, whether he has a Medic or other capability to heal his damage, and whether the grenade is going to hurt a teammate.
Whether or not to be using this weapon at all is a higher-level decision the Heavy must make periodically ; the primary factors being how many Medics are on his team (with few, he’ll want to be more self-reliant and use the Vacuum) and perhaps how many enemy Demomen are present (with more, he may find the Vacuum a liability - or he may need to use it as tool to clear sticky mines).
How many other features of the game does it affect? Often, the best ideas are “economical”, with a small set of required actions, but a wide set of resulting effects.
I feel that it’s economical: a gun with one new ability that creates two new game mechanics and one other rule change (no buffs). It will affect enemy demoman strategy significantly, and friendly Medic strategy somewhat as well. Sentry take-down/defense strategy, and ubercharge strategy, could also be changed by the ability to suck up stickies.
Other, subtler effects on strategy could arise, such as players looking more for fallen weapons to deny them to enemy Heavies, and Engineers (on both sides) “competing” with a Heavy for the Metal in fallen weapons.
Finally, keep in mind the skillset required to be a good Heavy. … The ability to estimate the amount of damage he’s taking. It takes time for the minigun to spin down, so he needs to be able to know when it’s time to retreat several seconds before his health has run out.
The “Health resource management” is made more complex by the ability to heal yourself. The fact that continuing to fire can lead to opportunities to heal yourself makes the retreat choice more complex - an optimist may keep shooting a little longer in hope of killing someone and grabbing their weapon, etc.
…The ability to keep firing at a target while still keeping an eye out for other dangers, in particular Snipers & Spies.
Situational awareness while firing is even more important with the Vacuum Gun as it adds the need for the Heavy to watch for dropped weapons and for grenades.
Conclusion
I feel that this is a nearly ideal addition to TF2: it can be made quite understandable, it uses only 2 or 3 rather simple new rules, but it will make the tactical and strategic decisions in the game that much deeper. It feels well-balanced and as though there’s no obvious downsides - though the only way to be sure would be to see it being played!
I don’t know whether anyone from Valve will ever read this, but I found it a challenging and interesting exercise in flexing my “game designer” muscles!
July 26th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I love this idea. It’s very well thought out, and I think you should send it to valve.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I think this is an excellent idea. It’s very deep in game play and mechanics. I would just change a few things
First, the mechanic of spinning the mini-gun would be replaced by the vacuum. By using mouse2, you can only vacuum. And the vacuum takes a while to start running and also stop, making accidentally sucking up grenades a little easier.
Second, Instead of changing the medic rules, the vacuum should lower the Heavy’s base health. Maybe to 200, so a medic’s buff would just put it back at 300 like normal. This would mean that a Medic could still help a heavy with the Vacuum.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I kinda like the first idea cmooney… it would definitely change the way Heavy plays though, as this would mean he could no longer use right-click to just spin his gun up without firing it… unless you were thinking that behavior would be the same, and the vacuum effect would just be added on.
(At this point in the discussion we’re just about at the point where it’s hard to say what mechanic would lead to more fun dynamics. The best thing to do is implement different things and see how they play.)
The second idea feels more drastic. I do see your point that we should avoid changing the Medic’s rules (by removing overheal in this case) - I’ve seen many suggestions of giving the Heavy a weapon which, while he has it equipped, doesn’t let the Medic uber him, or even heal him - changes which drastically affect Medic gameplay, and not in a good way. (As a Medic, there’s nothing I like to see than a Heavy hoofing it back toward our base with 1 HP - I can get a ton of ubercharge by healing him up. Being suddenly unable to heal that guy would be almost as frustrating for me as it would be for him. But I digress.)
Still, I don’t think that most Heavies would choose this option if it gave them a flat decrease to their HP. The goal isn’t to gimp the Heavy globally, it’s to cut down on his dependence on the Medic but also on the benefit of the “synergy” between Medic and Heavy. (As most players have seen, a good Medic/Heavy combo who are really working together intelligently can be the most powerful force in a game - and a key part of their effectiveness is that they move carefully and keep the Heavy overhealed at all time - thereby ensuring that no single attacker can take down the Heavy on its own (except for a Sniper or a Spy). Losing the overheal waters all that down, which is the downside desired here.
Then again, I tend to try to be too “clever” with my design solutions - your solution is certainly more understandable and keeps things consistent with other rules in the game. But I do think that it would water-down the Heavy in EVERY situation, instead of just in the Medic-combo situation.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Yes, maybe a 100 point hp drop is a little too drastic. The medic has to still be of use to the heavy without stacking the results. And we don’t want to change the medic rules just for one specific weapon on one class. But your right that a hundred point drop will make the heavy much easier to kill.
So i have two suggestions. First, make it a 50 point drop. This is not as big, and an over heal would but it at 375.
Or, remove the over heal from the medic, but give it to the vacuum. Just like the medic, the vacuum can heal the heavy over his max hp, but it instantly begins to drop.
As for my first idea, i meant that the vacuum would replace the spinning. Right clicking would only vacuum. Then, left clicking would activate the gun part. While vacuuming, the heavy would move slower, similar to how spinning slows you down. And the vacuum, while in use, would take a while to speed up and to shut off. (I picture the vacuum as a giant jet engine looking turbine attached to the mini-gun, so picture it spinning up and then slowly shutting off). The gun portion would either immediately star firing, or it would still take time to spin, but you wouldn’t be able to pre-spin it.
My final thought is that, if a medic was healing a Heavy while using the gun on a group of enemies, the Heavy would take almost no damage. He would be constantly healed by two sources. This might be a problem, since it would make the heavy almost invincible.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
My tought: If heavy lacks a company of a medic, he must survive with his shotgun. So, instead of a shotgun, he gets a minicannon. Lots of damages per shot (50-75 or 75-100), 15 bullets, and looks like black ball coming at you.
About this vacuum-idea… I just don’t like it, I can’t explain why i don’t like it, it’s just so.. Complicated. I can’t imagine myself using it, or seeing any advance in it. It might be a nice idea working idea, but.. no.
Instead Shasha should get some accuraty while ducking. Something like in Americas Army, that you pop out a bipod in one second. Then heavy get’s more accurate. And it takes 1 second to get back to walking mode. But i don’t know, does it change heavys role too much? It would make heavy more defencive class, but maybe more like a camping class? And more anti-sniper.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Well, the point is to make the heavy better on his own without a medic, not just plain better. A mini-gun that has better accuracy is just better than normal, with no weaknesses (the mini-gun already takes 1 second to get back to walking speed)
A powerful shot gun might be a good idea, but i don’t see how it would help with the medic problem. The medic allows a heavy to stand out in the open on the front lines and take fire from enemy’s without taking much damage. A weapon that lets the heavy heal it’s self can achieve the same thing, but a powerful shot gun would change the heavy’s role, turning him into a solider type class, and not help with lack of a medic.
I can understand that you may not like the idea. Personally, i don’t use the back burner, but other players do. Giving player options is the key, even if they choose the original weapon.
And i don’t see how it’s that complicated. It’s a vacuum that sucks things up and heals you. Most player will understand that. But advanced techniques like removing stickies can be learned. As the requirements asked, it’s easy to learn, hard to master.
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